Turning Your Birth Experience Into an Impactful Career with Hypnotherapist Clare Burgess
What if I told you there is a technique to support your doula clients not only during their birth and postpartum period…but for the rest of their lives?
In Episode 9 of the Birthworker Podcast, I'm joined by Clare Burgess, a hypnotherapist, mindset coach, and anxiety specialist, who is sharing her insight and experience from years of helping clients manage stress and become free from anxiety.
In this interview with Clare Burgess, we chat about:
The story of how birth trauma actually changed Clare’s life for the better…
The simplicity of the doula’s role in the birth room…
How using hypnobirthing in your doula practice will change your client’s lives…
… and a whole lot more!
Clare Burgess: I discovered hypnobirthing through my own personal experience. And I think, for me, that's why I'm so passionate about working with moms, but also exploring the power of the mind, the power of hypnosis because it's the route that I found for myself. So I had a very challenging first birth experience that on reflection, actually, I was doing so well, but there were certain things in the system, which just threw me off and I was full of fear and I didn't have a clue what to do, I didn't know what to expect. I was actually told, "Oh, that was a textbook birth," but I felt terrible afterwards. I felt exhausted. I felt like I failed because I'd panicked at certain points.
So anyway, when I came to get pregnant the second time, I went from being, "I'm pregnant, I'm really excited!", to absolute terror. Couldn't sleep, couldn't eat. Like a stranger. "Who am I? Who the hell am I?" And I remember seeing a consultant who was like, "Oh, just have a cesarean." And I just remember thinking, "It's not my body that's the problem, it's in here, it's in my mind. There's something that's not connected, or I need to process, or something."
But actually, that meeting with the consultant pushed me towards thinking “What can I do to work out this kind of fog of fear and anxiety about birth?” And I discovered hypnobirthing. I'd already heard about it before, but I just read a book and it was very superficial. I kind of just dipped into the book a few times. And this time I made the commitment to myself, "I am going to embrace this. This is the root, I do trust my body," because I gave birth the first time with just gas and air. It wasn't the fact I couldn't give birth, it was just the fact that I was unprepared, I was fearful, I didn't feel in control, I didn't feel I had a voice, I felt I was told to do things, and like the good girl I passively said, "All right then, I'll do it," lie on your back, that type of thing.
So what I found in hypnobirthing was that I had not only a toolkit, but I suddenly realized, really realized, I experienced the power of the mind. That this was not just a logical thing I was learning, that it was a massive shift in beliefs, understanding, and skills. I became completely converted to this way of exploring the mind, and loved it so much that I embraced it. That's something that I would recommend to anybody, whichever method somebody explores in terms of preparing for birth: just embrace it, embrace it fully. Not just superficially, like I did the first time.
Kyleigh Banks: Make it a lifestyle. Change your life.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. Enjoy it. And I really did, I really did. And I would have my little rituals of my MP3s and listening to downloads and going for walks, listening. And it became a part of my every day. And I went from having an absolute fear and feeling sick at the thought of giving birth again, and really, "I cannot face this, I can't even talk about it," to planning a home birth. I not only planned a home birth, but in my mind, I said "If I have to go to the hospital, I'm okay." I had my bag ready by the door. Absolutely. I had all my preferences and this feeling of, "I'm okay whatever happens." And when I work with moms, that's what I want to bring. You are okay, whatever happens. And here are some tools and some way of ways of learning about your mind, which means that this can be true for you. Whatever happens, let's just embrace the possibilities.
And so I had the most wonderful birth of my daughter, Charlotte, which, without sounding too dramatic, was life-changing because I remember feeling like, "This is a gift. I have to share this." I was in the corporate world at that point, and I was thinking, "How do I leave the IT sector, leave the corporate world and do this, share this, be in this?" I looked for hypnobirthing courses to learn to be a practitioner, but also I discovered active birth. Because that was an important part, I moved a lot during the home birth, I felt very free to move around and change positions. And in the type of hypnobirthing I'd learned, there wasn't much emphasis on using gravity and moving and positions. And so that's one of the things I've now pulled into my work. Let's talk about gravity as your friend in birthing, positions, and feeling free to move and relaxing in any position that feels right in the moment, listening to your body.
And so I explored and I trained in both active birth and hypnobirthing. And then what happened next was I started teaching, and it was a six-week relaxation for birth. It was a little bit like pregnancy yoga, active birth type movements, and hypnobirthing ideas and tools. So it was all combined, it's lovely, really, really lovely to teach. But I also thought I want to go further and I want to train to be a hypnotherapist. Because I had a few experiences where we'd had a few weeks of this lovely bonding with baby and relaxation and breathing and all these lovely, lovely, lovely things. And most of the moms in the room were really chilled out by the end of the session, really relaxed, really happy, thinking and feeling more ready. And every so often there'd be one woman who'd be in tears. And she's like, "I just can't connect with my baby. I just can't imagine it being okay." And I remember feeling, "She's who I want to work with."
I love this general stuff. I love all this, it's so lovely, but I want to work with the woman who's had a traumatic experience before, or who just cannot get past the anxiety or the worries or the feeling that, "I'm not capable," or whatever it is that's upsetting her. And as I trained as a hypnotherapist and I trained in cognitive hypnotherapy, which is very broad and very about the tailoring to each individual, every time it just grew and expanded, I really wanted to understand this more deeply. And so I expanded from just wanting to work with pregnancy, and now I work with men and women to help them recover from anxiety issues, low mood, and build confidence and self-belief. And so it's been this real journey and it's all thanks to the hypnobirthing that I found.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. All because of your first birth experience, which is interesting because I think a lot of people look at their, "Bad," quote unquote birth experience, or their negative birth experience, and they're only focused on the bad things that came from it that, whereas, your journey, that all came from that first birth experience.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. It's like a gift. My aim is I don't want anyone to go through that kind of birth. I want a mom to, whatever route, whatever happens, I want her to feel ready to now focus on this chapter with her baby, feeling the oxytocin flowing, feeling good, feeling ready to leave the birth and now focus on baby. But actually that was a gift for me because it led me on a path that here I am right now, doing the work that I love. No longer in the corporate world, which had its moments, it really did, but it's been a real journey from that first birth experience.
Kyleigh Banks: When you were preparing for your second birth, when you went all in on the hypnobirthing techniques, did you take a course yourself, or were you just reading the book more every day?
Clare Burgess: No. So I knew that just reading a book was not going to be enough. Just listening to a few downloads for me was not going to be enough.
Kyleigh Banks: That's what most people do and it's not enough.
Clare Burgess: It's not enough. For some people, if they've got a lot of other things, other background in things, they've already got some skills in real emotional management or they're very trained in certain way and in relaxation and, I don't know, maybe yoga or something that they've got a whole background in something else, maybe, there are some ways they can be fine. And I believe, actually women, they already have what they need to give birth. They don't need to be taught how to give birth. They just need to trust and reconnect. And that's, for me, what hypnobirthing offers, is that reconnection with the power that's already within us. But it's that thing of really exploring what we already have.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. So you did an in-person class probably, I'm guessing?
Clare Burgess: So I joined a class and it was with my husband.
Kyleigh Banks: Oh, is it typically you bring your partner?
Clare Burgess: Yeah. So I think there are some courses where you can bring a partner, some courses that you don't, and it was really important to me that he prepared as well. Because I had the experience the first time of feeling like he was over the other side of the room, he didn't have a clue how to support me. He was doing his very best, but he had no idea either what was going on. And so it was really important to me that he was with me and that he understood this as well, because I needed his support, and I think that's a key thing in hypnobirthing. You don't have to have your partner. Sometimes some of the clients I work with, they hire a doula as a birth partner, but we need to feel supported. It's so important within birth that we feel safe and that things can happen and the environment, we're influenced by the environment. So having somebody that we can just look at and feel the safety from just that connection is so important.
So we did the course, there were a couple of dads in the course who were like, "Oh, I'm not really buying this, not really." David was great, he really bought into it. And what was lovely for me is we prepared together for the second birth. I think I felt like we were in it together. Whereas the first time, it was on me. I was the one getting ready. Whereas this time he was on board, we were together in getting ready.
And so during Charlotte's birth, there was a moment where it was so peaceful. The midwives were in the kitchen, I was in the lounge and I was moving around, and sometimes I was just resting and doing my self-hypnosis and deep relaxation and all these lovely things. And there was a moment where, and now I know it was transition, but I went from being in my zone to suddenly, "I can't do this anymore."
It's the volume for me, it was the volume, because I was quite comfortable, I could feel the sensations, I could feel the things progressing. But I was okay, I was riding it, I was with it, it was happening, and I was on board with it. And then suddenly it was like, somebody turned up the volume really loud. I was like, "Whoa, whoa, what, what the hell?" And so I remember that point just saying to David, "I need you." And all he did, he didn't say very much, but he just said something like, "Just take yourself back to the relaxing place, that you practiced and practiced." And then I was like, "Shh," and I was back.
Kyleigh Banks: "I'm back." That's amazing.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. So that really made a difference to me, really made a difference.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. You know what's interesting, witnessing birth, when I look at the partners supporting the mom, it really makes a huge difference, because in that moment, I've witnessed births where the mom says, "Hey, I need help." And then the dad's trying to fix it. The dad's trying to, "Okay, well do you want to go to the hospital? Should we get the anesthesiologist?" And it's like, wait, no, no, no. That's not the fix. You can't fix this.
Clare Burgess: No, there's nothing to fix.
Kyleigh Banks: You just have to be here.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. And I know a lot of dads really benefit, or the birth partners really benefit from knowing and understanding what their role is. Understanding that they have a really important role is really important, but most of the time they need to sit on their hands and not do very much apart from be calm. Because we have these mirror neurons where we're feeding off each other unconsciously all the time, and so we want the energy in the room to be supportive and calm.
And so that's something within hypnobirthing for the partner to learn how to calm themselves, to have to be in a calm state. So even if there's something that's happened and they go "Oh, what's happening?" They can bring themselves back to calm. It makes such a difference, because so much, we think it's all about the spoken words, but we're picking up so much unconsciously all the time. And when a woman is giving birth, she is really in need of the energy around her that tells her unconsciously that, "You're okay and you're safe, I'm here." And so if nothing else, this is what the birth partner is there for, to say, "I'm here. You're okay. Lean on me if you need to," or, "I'm here to support you."
So having David there within preparing was so important and it made such a difference during the labor. I also think hypnobirthing skills, if we really look at them and anything around learning self-hypnosis, relaxation... And they're not the same thing, by the way, they happen together or they can be, but it's not the same thing. But learning how to manage, thinking and language and all these things, they're life skills, they really are life skills. Because when I work with people with anxiety and we're shifting out of habituated patterns of thinking and worrying and catastrophizing, a lot of the same skills I'm teaching, I don't call it hypnobirthing, and I don't mention birth, it's not relevant, but really, fundamentally they're the same, they're the same tools...
Kyleigh Banks: So you're teaching people tools to do self-hypnosis so they can do these things on themself when you're not there?
Clare Burgess: That is so important, so important, I want to empower. And with whether I'm working with a mom who's preparing for birth or whether I'm working with someone else, it's not about me, it's not about me doing something to them. Everything is about them realizing that they're okay and that they have this amazing potential and capacity within them already, we're just tapping into it. We're just learning how to manage the mind, to use the mind-body connection. And I think it's so important because I'm not a doula, so I don't go into the birthing room with a mom. And so I want her to know that she can be okay, wherever, whenever, whatever, and that she has this, she's got everything she needs. That's really important.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. Do you think it would benefit moms if they had a hypnobirthing instructor who was also their doula and who could come be there?
Clare Burgess: I think that'd be amazing. I have been asked, I've been asked quite a few times. And I'm not trained or insured to do that. It's not the right time in my life to do that, but it is something I definitely have thought about. But I think that would be wonderful because they'll have it there. It can be helpful to listen to recordings and things during the labor, cause that's helpful. And even just the familiarity of whoever you've worked with, their voice becomes an anchor for calm and relaxation and becomes part of something that's very supportive. I think having someone who a birthing mom can really trust who knows how to stay in this calm state. It doesn't have to be a hypnotherapist or a hypnobirthing instructor, it can be their partner or it can be a doula.
But it's certainly something that I want a birthing mom to absolutely trust herself, she's got this. And so it doesn't matter then if for some reason her partner's running late and isn't there. She's okay, she's all right. Or if something happens out of the blue, she's okay, she's got everything she needs. And so we might introduce certain things that she can take with her, whether it's a nice lavender smell, but they're not the essential things, they're the supportive extras. Everything is within her. And so the tools are a way of learning and trusting this. Got the tools themselves, it's the way of really trusting it.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. That's really fascinating. And to me, it's almost like once you quote, unquote, "Graduate," you don't need the tools anymore because you've just embodied things.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. We want to get out of the logical thinking. It's not a logical thing. We're not trying to do it, we're trusting it and therefore it happens. We're letting it happen, we're going into it. So it's like, if we try and relax, have you ever tried to relax? It has the opposite effect. Trying to sleep is the worst way of falling asleep because we're holding onto something, we're logically trying to do something that's unconscious. And birth is an unconscious process, it's the most primitive part of our system that births the baby. We have to get the logical thinking part of the brain offline and out of the way so that the birthing body can get on with what it knows perfectly how to do. And so I think it's one of those things that really, really makes a difference to start to understand this, but not in a logical intellectual way. It has to be an embodied. It's like the knowing, when you really know something, you no longer really know how you know it, you just...
Kyleigh Banks: Like opening your hand.
Clare Burgess: Yeah.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. Opening your hand. You just do it, you don't have to logically think about it anymore. Birth your baby, you don't have to logically think about it.
Clare Burgess: And so the toolkit is really important though, because we don't know what's going to happen. It's very uncertain and our human brains, we don't like uncertainty, do we? So having a toolkit is like having a set of rituals or things they can hold onto if at any point there's a moment of, "I don't know what I'm doing or what's happening." It's that idea of being able to, it's okay to have a wobble. It's okay to have a moment where the adrenaline is starting to come into the system because you know and you've got all these different choices and tools to bring yourself back to calm. And it could be as simple as knowing how to breathe, as simple as that. And that's the ritual and you just... But then we can go even further with the power of the imagination and visualization, mantras, affirmation, all these different things can come in.
Kyleigh Banks: I remember reading the book, I read the hypnobirthing book, and the color visualizations I clung onto. Actually, when I got to my birth, I didn't do a single thing, but I didn't need to, because I didn't need to find a tool, I was actually... It was so it was really amazing and I didn't really hit that overwhelming part, but I had embodied that in my pregnancy, and that's the thing.
Clare Burgess: This is it. These tools are there as a way of tuning in, they're a way of trusting. It's if I'm going on a hike or an adventure, I pack my bag just in case. And actually I probably don't need half that stuff, but if I need it, I've got it and then I'm okay. And therefore, when I'm thinking about what's happening or what's coming ahead, I'm okay, because I've got everything I need, and that's the idea of having a toolkit. It's not that I have to use it all, it's just having the sense of everything you need and the sense of choice. So I'm never into there's one tool and this is the tool. Because you know what, we don't know, there might be on that day something else that really works or really helps.
So flexibility is really important and it's something that I really bring into all the work I do, is about flexibility of mind and being able to adapt in the moment, a bit like a dance, you just move with the rhythm and the movement and the music, it's not forced or fixed, trying to fix something, as you said before, it's going with it. But there's a lot of skill that comes with letting go and going with it. Going with the flow isn't just something that we can all do. Because we have such a modern way of living that's so controlled and scheduled, and our lives are very medicalized, things that are very natural often get medicalized, so we have this kind of disconnect sometimes with what we can actually do. So going with the flow is a skill, it really is. It's a skill that needs practice and preparation in a way.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. I never realized how similar my teaching style and my lifestyle are to the hypnobirthing style. I had never made that connection, so it was really cool. It's almost like we are both hoping for that same outcome, but just teaching it in a little different ways. But I'm really interested in taking a hypnobirthing course now, just so I can learn some more skills to add to my tool bag as a doula to help moms.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. And what I love about that is the fact that we are also different, so having lots of different options, there's so much overlap. There's so much overlap with all of these things, but it's each person's going to connect with something that really suits them. So it's really good that there are lots of different types of birth preparation. And I always say, "Find the one that resonates most with you." I think more and more with hypnobirthing, it's seen as a normal thing, than a... It used to be seen a little bit like a hippie thing I think, or a bit woo-woo, but I think that really has changed. I think a lot of hypnobirthing practitioners are very open to other, broader ways of teaching and bringing other things in. And it's about staying up to date really with the latest knowledge that there is around positive birth and how to help people to prepare in that way.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. So you did the hypnobirth instructor training program. Is that through the hypnobirthing company? Is it Mongan?
Clare Burgess: No. So no, it was the Marie Mongan method that I originally did when I was preparing for my daughter's birth, but no, I did a couple of different ones from different schools. And that's one of the changes actually that I've noticed, because when I first learned about hypnobirthing was when I was pregnant with my son, and that was over 14 years ago, there wasn't much choice. There was only really the Marie Mongan method I think. And in my area there were no, and maybe there was one teacher, whereas now there are all sorts of different Hypnobirthing schools. There are online courses, there are free things on YouTube that people can access, there are so many books. I think it's amazing, I think it's a wonderful thing. The more we can get the message out, the better.
So I think now it's like finding a school or a method that really resonates. If somebody wants to be a hypnobirthing instructor, it's like which type? Because actually, if you really look at all the hypnobirthing books or look at the structure of the course, they're all teaching the same principles, it just is a different flavor. And we're all different in what we like or what we connect to. And I think if somebody is interested in becoming a hypnobirthing practitioner or teacher, it's about finding a method that's really open to all types of birth, that's not fixed. I think that's quite out of date. There are some, maybe in the past, some schools in the past that were about vaginal, spontaneous, natural, no medical anything, and I think that's disempowering to be so fixed.
Kyleigh Banks: 100%. Yeah. I agree.
Clare Burgess: But I don't know many now, I haven't seen many now who get fixed on that idea. That's a very kind of outdated idea.
Kyleigh Banks: Because once something goes sideways, it's like, "Well, guess I can't do my hypnobirthing stuff anymore."
Clare Burgess: Exactly. And I think that maybe in the past was something that happened, because there were stories of moms who were like, "Well, I was okay until this point and then my hypnobirthing went out the window." For me that means they haven't really understood the principles, it's just tools, they've just learned some tools. Or I saw something recently was, "Hypnobirthing works for some mums, but not others." I'm like, well how can that be, because it's not a set thing? It's mindset and it's connecting with how the mind works, so it can work for anybody as long as it's taught or received in a way that connects to the individual. I think that's really important. So we get away from this idea of it being one thing, "You've got to get it right."
So even in breathing, so I do a lot of teaching, different breathing techniques and I always say, "It's not the technique that matters. It's just a way of you learning and connecting with your breath and getting used to breathing in a certain way, in a certain rhythm, so that you trust yourself, so that it's automatic that when you want to calm, you just breathe, just breathe." So the technique itself is not the set thing. It's a way of learning. And so if we use numbers to count in and count out, it's not the numbers that matter, it's the letting go of the out-breath more slowly than the in-breath and just learning a rhythm.
Kyleigh Banks: That's interesting. Yeah. I think a lot of women who aren't quite there yet probably cling to, "Oh, am I doing the right count of in-breaths? Is it four? Is it five? Is it seven? What is it?" Yeah. But that's not the end goal.
Clare Burgess: No, it's not... And I think that's so normal to have that reaction and I certainly did myself because that's how we learn in school, "Am I getting it right? Am I doing it right?" But what we want is to connect. So I always say to people, "Just breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe." But what we're learning is how to breathe well, and how to use the breath as a body-mind tool. When we calm our breath, we calm our entire nervous system and we then support the birth hormones. So it's knowing how to support the birth hormones that matters, not this particular technique or this many numbers. And some people really don't connect with numbers, so forget the numbers, just use colors or use some of something else or just breathe in, breathe out. It doesn't really matter. It's the concepts and the principles behind it that really matter.
Kyleigh Banks: So when you were teaching the six week class, the hypnobirthing class, it was a group program and it was more general, but you felt like you couldn't really focus in on like specific people.
Clare Burgess: No, and it was very scripted. And that helped me, because it was very comfortable for me because I just had to read a script. The way I work now, it's about really connecting in with someone. I think scripts are useful, but in the group, you can't tailor a script to each individual. There has to be bringing in of that person, how they're thinking about it, what they need.
I think it's really lovely in a group like that, and what was lovely about it is that some of the ideas were very simple. And so there were simple structures and simple things to hold onto, ideas to hold onto. I think the problem where sometimes, if it's too, "This is the way it is," then what happens to that woman who can't connect with that idea or who is really doubting herself or saying, "I can't do it. It's not working for me?" So although I loved the simplicity of it and the fact that we go through this process and we relax and we do all these things, now I can still do groups, but very small groups because there is this power in really tailoring it to what an individual needs.
Kyleigh Banks: You know what that makes me think of, is when you're going to, and I don't know if this is how it is in the UK, but sometimes you can go to a hypnosis show, where the hypnotist picks all these people, does their thing and then is like, "You're out, you're out, you're out." And so that would be like the mom who needs a little bit of extra time or something more specific to get there.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. So in stage hypnosis, they are very skilled. It’s very different to hypnotherapy, and it's very different to hypnobirthing. But what they're doing is, "Who is going to really engage in this fully? Who's going to be a good person to entertain this crowd?" So they are spotting who’s responding fully and finding it easy to respond. It's not that the other people who're made to sit down, it's not that they can't, but as you say, they need a different style, a different connection, more time, they need it. We all are very, very different in how we process things, so that's interesting that you bring that up...
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. And that's cool to hear that it's so different. I'm curious when you became a hypnotherapist, did it change your view of the hypnobirthing method?
Clare Burgess: I think it enriched it. I think it enriched it. I loved it even more because I could see it from a wider perspective of how to make it accessible for somebody who really doesn't believe in themselves or really just has this story going on in their mind that, "I never relax, I can't relax," or something. "I'm not going to cope, I can't do it," whatever the story is. Understanding how the mind works and how we process things and how we build up these inner narratives and we believe them as if they're true, and knowing how to start to help shift somebody out of that and how to expand their perspective of what they can do. And they start to experience different things and have a different perception in that way.
So I think it made me more interested and keen, and I think it's one of those things that it's helped me then be far more flexible. For me, hypnobirthing is not just a set of tools, it's not a script, it's not a set agenda in a way. I have a very clear framework and very clear ideas that I want to share and I want the mom to understand, because they're really helpful. But how we weave it together will depend on what really resonates and really connects. And I think you just have this extra talk and extra understanding with somebody who's also trained as a hypnotherapist. So it's a deeper, richer, broader understanding of the mind and body that comes with that.
Kyleigh Banks: This is fascinating. I'm going to go see what it takes to be a hypnotherapist in the states. Very cool, because I understand a lot of these concepts, but I have a really hard time helping other people understand them. I learned a lot of the concepts just from really deep suffering on my own. And I hit a rock bottom and somehow a greater power or something just instantly put them into my head and I'm like, "Oh wow. I can do anything. The entire world is my perception. That person exists because I'm seeing them, so really, they're in my head. And I can change things." But it's hard to help other people understand that unless you understand a framework and I'm guessing hypnobirthing instructor training gave you that first framework and then you understood it even deeper when you went into the hypnobirthing.
Clare Burgess: And I think some really good hypnobirthing training gives an instructor, a teacher of hypnobirthing, a really good way of facilitating that knowing in somebody as a starting point. Obviously, maybe sometimes if that mom needs extra, just having one structure isn't going to be enough. But I think the best way to really help someone is not through logic, its information and just remembering that it has to be in the body, they have to feel it, they have to experience it. And so just that teaching somebody how to relax, especially if they've had a belief that they can't, in itself can open up so many other positive beliefs about how capable they are.
And then mapping over. So many moms that I've worked with, they're business owners or they're team managers, or they've had all these different, really positive things in their life, they've run the marathon or so many things. But when it comes to birth and thinking about birth, they're going into this very narrow view of themselves as if they can't do anything and they're not capable. And so one of the key things is knowing how to map over and saying, "Look, you already have all these skills. You're already doing all this stuff. What is it you need to map these over into your inner map or narrative for birthing?" And just that again, but it's not just a logical thing we're doing within that, they have to connect within themselves to really trusting that they are capable in that way. And the thing I love about the world of hypnotherapy is that it's never-ending. The learning about the mind and psychology and neuroscience is expansive. It's wonderful.
Kyleigh Banks: And it's interesting because hypnobirthing, yes it's about birth, but those skills, absolutely they're life skills. So of course the program is narrowed in on birth, but you could change the word birth for life and have all the same skills.
Clare Burgess: Exactly. They are so overlapping. Even, so one of the things with anxiety, an anxiety pattern is the what-iffing. "What if this happens? What if that happens? Oh no, what..." And the, "Blah, blah, blah," before they know it, they're in this spiral. Now we can all do that about anything, can't we? So learning how to manage the mind when it's racing off into the worst-case scenario is a life skill that we can all benefit from. I think the thing about pregnancy and birth is it's such an important experience and such a full experience that it's almost a great time to learn.
Because I often find some of my most engaged clients are the pregnant clients, because this really, really matters for them, they are really fully committed. It's not just about them, it's about their baby, about their family. So in a way that's great because it's like the more committed you are, the more willing you are to be open. Sometimes they're skeptical. Sometimes they're like, "Yeah, sure. Is this going to work for me?" I don't mind that, because I trust it can. But then because they are willing to embrace it, they start to discover things about themselves or they start to be able to reframe their own thinking or catch themselves before they fall in the anxiety trap of what-iffing or should-ing, that's another one, "I should do this. I should feel that." And then the guilt comes in and all those other things that are not useful for birth, they're learning really quite powerful things for life.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. I think one of the things you said in this talk that really stuck with me is that trying to be aware or trying to calm down or trying to be conscious is not how you become that way.
Clare Burgess: No, it's the being, not the doing. I think sometimes people are trying to do it, "What do I need to do?" And actually everything we're learning is about being, being with it, trusting. How do we trust? How do we know we're trusting? It's a very subtle body experience, isn't it? We don't try and trust, we just do. How do we know something? We just know it, it's within us. And that's what we want to connect to, that's what's important for this.
Kyleigh Banks: I think in my pregnancy, one of my clients told me something. I was working in a different industry and one of my clients told me something that changed my world. And she said, "What's your biggest fear?" I said, "Freaking out. I don't want to have a panic attack, I don't want to freak out during my birth." And she goes, "Why don't you be okay with freaking out? You can freak out and be okay with freaking out." And it created this second layer, become the watcher. And I think that's really fascinating because you can have a calm birth and still freak out, but that person watching it happen is calm on the back end. And it is really cool when you can create those different layers and be okay with not being okay.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. Well often with anxiety and panic and all these things, there's something within how we're approaching or relating to it, which is that it's not okay. "I must get rid of this feeling. I must stop this feeling. I shouldn't feel this feeling." Which creates more, it feeds the feeling. Because what we focus on, we feed. It amplifies in our experience. It is our experience, the more we focus on it. And so one of the things I do, more with anxiety, but with pregnancy as well, is welcome, you welcome the feeling. Which is so opposite to what we normally do, which is we try and stop the feelings. And with thoughts, we don't try and stop thoughts because that just feeds them. We just give space, have space, don't attach them, that's a key thing. But again, somebody needs to experience this, it's not a logical thing to learn. And like you did, you experienced it and therefore you understood it from a different level of mind and in your body.
Kyleigh Banks: And not just by reading a book or reading... Yeah. Even if you read the book a few times, you have to really put it to practice.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. It has to be in the body as well. And we can gain a lot from reading, knowledge is power and we can gain a lot from reading, but it has to open up then a curiosity and a willingness to really go into something. Not just, "I've got loads of information now, that's it." And there are so many examples of that where we think more information is going to help us feel better and actually it can have the opposite effect because we're just giving ourselves more information.
Kyleigh Banks: Birth is such a good example of that. Yeah. I tell my clients, "As you're approaching your birth, into your third trimester, stop trying to study. It's not studying for a test, stop trying to cram all the knowledge in, it's time to just let go and start trusting. Work on the mindset part, not the knowledge, not the logic behind that."
Clare Burgess: Exactly. I often say to my clients, "Stop Googling. I'll be your filter if you really want, or your midwife can be your filter," because they can go down a rabbit hole of just more and more and more information, which is often useless or not. It's just on top of what they already have. It's not adding anything of use to that.
Kyleigh Banks: Especially if it's fear-based Googling.
Clare Burgess: Yeah. And we, as human beings, we love a negative story. We love sharing. We have a negative bias. You just have to look at the dramas that are most popular, they're all about the most negative human things aren't they?
Kyleigh Banks: And in the news. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. I have one last question for you. If someone is like, "I just want to learn more about this." Do you have a favorite book or a favorite YouTube channel or just something, somewhere that someone can go to start learning more?
Clare Burgess: Yeah. Well, I think there is a lot on YouTube. That's a great place to start. There is a lot and what's good about starting with YouTube is there are different styles, so you can start to connect. And I know there are hypnosis tracks or people talking about their own personal experience of hypnobirthing, and that can then open up to what resonates. There are lots of really good books and I often say I have a video, and I can share this with you, a recommended reading list.
Kyleigh Banks: Yeah. I'd love it.
Clare Burgess: But what I say is so personal, if I love a book, I don't know if you're going to love the same book, I can just recommend it. They all say pretty much the same thing, they've just got a different way maybe of approaching it or sharing it or exploring it. So choose one that really connects, whatever that is. So there are a couple that come to mind. One is a UK hypnotherapist who created Mindful Hypnobirthing and she has a book. That one I like, because it's very open and it's very, "This is okay and this is okay and here's..." Yeah. It's in line with how I like to teach, and I'm trying to think of others, but the Marie Mongan one has a lot of good stuff in it, it really does. There are quite a few, but just because one person really connects with a book doesn't mean another one, so it is about discovering what most connects. What's going to open up and help embrace all the possibilities.
Kyleigh Banks: And if you don't connect with the book, don't think that you're not connecting with the hypnobirthing method.
Clare Burgess: Exactly.
Kyleigh Banks: Put down the book and find another that you connect with.
Clare Burgess: Exactly. No, I had an experience, not so much with hypnobirthing, but I was looking at exploring some new things and the lady that was teaching it was very much into chakras and all this other stuff and that didn't connect with me, but it doesn't mean that's not great stuff. And if that connects with somebody then amazing, but it is finding what really connects with you.
thank you for listening
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Meet your host, Kyleigh Banks, a side-gig doula turned CEO of a multi-six-figure birth-focused business. Her passion? Teaching birth nerds, like you, how to build an incredibly successful doula business that allows you to quit your day job, stay home with your kids, and most importantly, make a lasting impact on the world.